DC charging 4S Taycan

[daveo4EV]

screw 270 kW charging - honestly screw it -

what I’m impressed with is the Taycan’s ability to charge at north of 100 kW (close to 150 kW) deep into the 80% SOC…it was that way yesterday in Monterey at the newly opened EA charger @ 1212 Forest Ave, Pacific Grove....

a solid and sustained 150 kW from most any low SOC into the low 80% SOC - and then not dropping below 100 kW until after 92% SOC is a super fast charging session and way way way better than any of my 5 Tesla’s I’ve owned since 2013…

quit focusing on the marketing BS - the most impressive charging sessions I’ve seen is when the Taycan is cooking along at 150 kW and flat lines at that rate deep in to the 80% SOC range…world class.

and honestly good enough - I got 33% SOC to 93% SOC yestereday in 30 min flat, and had some tasty BBQ chicken for lunch while I charged from the place across the street.

the Taycan doesn’t honestly taper the charge rate until about 92% SOC - until that point it taking triple digit Kw’s - which is a lot of power in a very very short time.

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[arijaycomet]

YES

screw 270 kW charging - honestly screw it -

what I’m impressed with is the Taycan’s ability to charge at north of 100 kW (close to 150 kW) deep into the 80% SOC…it was that way yesterday in Monterey at the newly opened EA charger @ 1212 Forest Ave, Pacific Grove....

a solid and sustained 150 kW from most any low SOC into the low 80% SOC - and then not dropping below 100 kW until after 92% SOC is a super fast charging session and way way way better than any of my 5 Tesla’s I’ve owned since 2013…

quit focusing on the marketing BS - the most impressive charging sessions I’ve seen is when the Taycan is cooking along at 150 kW and flat lines at that rate deep in to the 80% SOC range…world class.

and honestly good enough - I got 33% SOC to 93% SOC yestereday in 30 min flat, and had some tasty BBQ chicken for lunch while I charged from the place across the street.

the Taycan doesn’t honestly taper the charge rate until about 92% SOC - until that point it taking triple digit Kw’s - which is a lot of power in a very very short time.

YES!!! This is what I was trying to convey, in a slightly “different” way, in my posts earlier today (this thread and others). When i had an Audi eTron SUV, it would charge faster (more kW added in the same period of time) because of the kW across the SOC being higher, as you just said. In turn this meant that other competitors products might be more efficiency on the road, but they wont add as many kW back in as fast. Making both cars equally as “fast” on a long distance road trip. The downside of course is that you’re going to be adding more kW (could be at a cost once the free charging is gone) —

I’ve not yet taken a road trip in the Taycan but if the experience is like the eTron SUV, which based on your post, it is— then you’re 100% correct. And this really becomes also a conversation of “area under the curve” — in the case of the Taycan’s charging, there is more area under the curve when compared to, say, a Tesla — and that’s what will matter here!

 

[daveo4EV]

And this really becomes also a conversation of “area under the curve”

yes - people do not fully appreciate how much better the Taycan is at charger - a "flat" line 130 kW from 20% SOC to 88% SOC - beats a peak 270 kW but with a taper to less than 60 kW @ 70% SOC…

I'm super impressed with the flat line charging rate of the Taycan…

 

[TAYC4S]

@russw -- saw your post in another thread -- clearly you are "waiting" for things on the EA/charging network before you grab a Taycan. And really, so is most of the population. In general people aren't ready to give up the ability to stop and fuel in less than 5 mins. Average person doesn't want to spend 20-30m charging, and won't deal with the charging issues that are shown. (Yes, I watched all 2 hours of that video last night; though I knew most of the details as I'm good friends with many of the organizers of that excursion).

If you are worried about charging, you'd be better off with a Tesla. I was able to charge at 225kW during a recent 1500+ mile journey in my wife's 2020 Tesla Model Y LR AWD. There was no hassle, no worrying, no moving chargers. Every stop was perfect, flawless. You just get out, plug in, and go about your business. No hand shakes, no hassles. Why? Because Tesla owns the whole experience from top-to-bottom. So you're getting a turn key enjoyment factor that nobody else can offer. And until an automaker decides to also get into the energy business, that is how it will go.

(This is like Apple's approach, from making hardware, to software, and all in-between from the sales to the manufacturing, etc. Nobody else does this, and while VW Group has their money in the EA experience, and such, that 2hr video clearly shows its a software handshake issue).

But -- it takes pioneers like the guys who did the coast-to-coast run to help figure it out. As they figured out, if the car ramps up to ~225 kW the experience was fine. Also, they found the results varied depending on which mfg of DC fast charger. ABB being far superior. But you have automakers under one roof, the charging infrastructure people under another. And those who are making the hardware at yet another. And again you have now 3x accountable for this, versus 1.

For whatever it may be worth --- I did a trip 2 years ago in an Audi eTron SUV. During this trip I ran projections and numbers, and had a friend who had done the same trip in a Tesla Model X LR/100. We figured out that the whole trip was within 5mins equal. So where the eTron SUV got far inferior efficiency, the charging speeds were better. That car only charged at 150kW just like the Tesla X (which I think is/was 120kW max for their car). Long story short? The Audi could sustain a higher kW-rate-of-charge deeper into the SOC% than the Tesla, allowing for the total trip (approx 500 miles) to be within 5mins total time (Charging + Driving).

Now with that said-- one of the BIG advertisements here for the Porsche Taycan is that it can do 270kW charging. But even when it can do it (when the handshake doesn't fail; even if they FIX that part)-- people need to understand that will still only be up to ~42% SOC -- and then it will taper off. Just the same BS marketing as Tesla saying you can charge at "1000 miles per hour of charge"-- guess how long that lasts? Even SHORTER than the Taycan. It's all smoke-and-mirrors. I dont buy into it....

And to that end-- the BEST cars for charging remain the VW Group cars, in that they add more kW faster. Once VW Group can get more efficient cars we'll be better off. Wait for the VW ID.4 and see what happens. That is going to blow the Tesla out of the water -- more efficient AND faster to charge? Get ready for that 1-2 punch!

Interesting but the conclusion sort of assumes Tesla is standing still which clearly it is not. It is also about to release even denser cell technology. The game is constantly moving and Tesla cell management tech just seems a lot better right now... Regardless though my Taycan is just amazing on so many levels and I did not buy a Porsche for range, even if I would not mind a little more...

 

[Eric]

screw 270 kW charging - honestly screw it -

what I’m impressed with is the Taycan’s ability to charge at north of 100 kW (close to 150 kW) deep into the 80% SOC…it was that way yesterday in Monterey at the newly opened EA charger @ 1212 Forest Ave, Pacific Grove....

a solid and sustained 150 kW from most any low SOC into the low 80% SOC - and then not dropping below 100 kW until after 92% SOC is a super fast charging session and way way way better than any of my 5 Tesla’s I’ve owned since 2013…

quit focusing on the marketing BS - the most impressive charging sessions I’ve seen is when the Taycan is cooking along at 150 kW and flat lines at that rate deep in to the 80% SOC range…world class.

and honestly good enough - I got 33% SOC to 93% SOC yestereday in 30 min flat, and had some tasty BBQ chicken for lunch while I charged from the place across the street.

the Taycan doesn’t honestly taper the charge rate until about 92% SOC - until that point it taking triple digit Kw’s - which is a lot of power in a very very short time.

This mirrors my recent experience with using an EA 150 kwatt charger from 26% SOC to 80% SOC in 29 minutes with a consistent charging speed of 110 kwatts with no tapering of speed at the 80% mark

 

[Vik]

I am interested in moving from a 2017 Model X to a Taycan 4S. I plan to take a 400 mile road trip a handful of times a year. I saw the Out of Spec video and all the issues they had with EA which concerns me. I checked my route on PlugShare and it looks like all of the 350kw EA chargers are the troublesome Signet units. Is the only way to get these to work at peak 270kw to roll in "cold" (no preconditioning)? What is everyones experience with the Signet EA chargers?

 

[wemct]

Actually the Out of Spec video showed that with the Signet 350kW EA chargers the problems occurred when the high volt battery was too hot for the charger. The Taycan was not using the factory Porsche Charging Planner to precondition the battery because the Nav system was not working. What they discovered was that if they arrived with the battery temp in the 80s F, then the Signet chargers worked better. When the temps were in the 90s, the Signet chargers supplied more than 270kW causing the car to terminate the session. You should still try to precondition your battery. If you arrive with a cold battery, it will connect but at much slower speeds. Even with the issues with the 350kW chargers they still broke the EV Cannonball record. They did not get stranded at any of the chargers. As they demonstrated and as many of us who have used the EA network know, the 150kW chargers are a decent backup if the 350kW chargers don't work. You will add about 10 minutes to your session if you need to fall back to the 150kW chargers. I recently completed a 922 mile trip all on the EA network. No drama.

 

[Miwa]

The amount of time you spend actually charging far above 150kW isn't that great anyway. Given that Porsche is going to allow you to limit charging to 200kW, I also don't think you want to go a lot faster either.

 

[arijaycomet]

Just to add one more voice to this conversation (where both @wemct and @Miwa covered it nicely) — as they said you wont get stranded. But... one thing I found is that the 350kW towers are about 50% down anyhow. When I took a trip from Cleveland, OH to Indianapolis IN (via Columbus, Dayton, etc) — I was in an Audi eTron SUV and I always tried the 350kW unit first for yucks (and i had heard you may get more than 150kW at those). About HALF the 350kW units did not work, but the 150kW were far more likely to be “first try” success.

As the OoS video shows, they often moved to 150kW units and had success, too. And as noted above, you spend such a small amount of time that high speed anyhow. As a matter of fact, if you are arriving over 40% SOC to the EA/DC-fast you wont really need the 350kW stall, anyhow. And by the time you reach 60% at the 350kW tower, you’d be no faster than the 150kW tower. But really, I’d not over think it.

(Where in the Midwest are you? Also, i too came from Tesla —and in my experience the kW charging in these VW-group products has more “area under the curve” so the charging is actually net “fasteR” and/or makes up for the lower efficiency) (in other words, you may arrive to the charger having used more kW of energy, but you’ll spend the same time at the charger as a Tesla, but will have added more power back in, so tit for tat, its all The same!)

 

[Vik]

Just to add one more voice to this conversation (where both @wemct and @Miwa covered it nicely) — as they said you wont get stranded. But... one thing I found is that the 350kW towers are about 50% down anyhow. When I took a trip from Cleveland, OH to Indianapolis IN (via Columbus, Dayton, etc) — I was in an Audi eTron SUV and I always tried the 350kW unit first for yucks (and i had heard you may get more than 150kW at those). About HALF the 350kW units did not work, but the 150kW were far more likely to be “first try” success.

As the OoS video shows, they often moved to 150kW units and had success, too. And as noted above, you spend such a small amount of time that high speed anyhow. As a matter of fact, if you are arriving over 40% SOC to the EA/DC-fast you wont really need the 350kW stall, anyhow. And by the time you reach 60% at the 350kW tower, you’d be no faster than the 150kW tower. But really, I’d not over think it.

(Where in the Midwest are you? Also, i too came from Tesla —and in my experience the kW charging in these VW-group products has more “area under the curve” so the charging is actually net “fasteR” and/or makes up for the lower efficiency) (in other words, you may arrive to the charger having used more kW of energy, but you’ll spend the same time at the charger as a Tesla, but will have added more power back in, so tit for tat, its all The same!)

Thanks for the info! And great to hear a lot of Taycan owners are road tripping with EA successfully. I am in the Twin Cities area and do road trips to Chicago. The charging curve got me curious and agree that the comparable trip should be the same or faster in a Taycan depending on 150kw or 270kw peaks.

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