Range and Elevation

Tiredoftesla

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After 7-1/2 year of driving Model S's I'm ready for something else. Test drove a 93Kw 4S today and loved it. In terms of fit, finish, handling, and overall quality it is in another league than Tesla. My issue is range. We have a second home 195 miles away and we drive back and forth to regularly, 20-30 times a year. It is at 7600 feet and so we have a 6600 foot vertical climb. My first model S had a 235 mile range and I could make it the 195 miles with about 10 miles left as long as I didn't go over 60 miles an hour. Of course, driving back down I could drive 10 over and get back with 70 miles left. My S100 D has a 330 mile range and I make this drive at 10 mph over, using 270 miles of range to get there. So on paper, the 4S is a dead duck. I explained all this to my Porsche dealer and they of course pointed to all the studies that show the conservative rating of the Porsche and they "promise" that I will be able to make it with no problems. They will not give me a money back guarantee, however. They are considering letting me take a used turbo up there to try it.

My question to the forum: does anybody have real world experience driving to elevation? Would the Turbo and the 4S have the same range?
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loysha

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My question to the forum: does anybody have real world experience driving to elevation? Would the Turbo and the 4S have the same range?
With a quiet ride (4S and Turbo) in range or normal mode, the power reserve should be the same. I recommend renting a Taikan and checking it out. Tesla travels more under equal conditions.
 

Doc B

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Firstly, that sounds like an awesome second home. In relation to range, it really also depends on climate. On a cold day, without a pre-heated battery (which is surprisingly difficult to do with a Taycan), I would not risk a 195 mile trip even on the flat. I assume that since your second home is at 7,600 feet, it's not always warm where you are...
 

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Pretty confident in saying that in winter you will either be a dead duck or a very nervous duck. And if the winds are against you, even more so. Might want to check for a charger along the route, if so it should be quite doable. And one test, might not cover all the adverse conditions that could occur.
 

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You should be able to make it very easily in summer and a bit more carefully in winter.

You'll lose about 6-9% of the battery on a 6600 climb, so you need to make the other 190 or so miles on 91-94% of the battery which is quite easy in summer and still not that tricky in winter.

I've done about that elevation gain about 30 or 40 times in my Taycan 4S so lots of real world experience.
 
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https://abetterrouteplanner.com/
here you can play a bit with you uphill route and check the range. it's topology aware. Also check with your Model S range if that fit's with their calculations.
I think using 20 (or even better: 19) inch wheels makes most of the difference in range.
 

kmcdonal

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I have similar feedback to the other comments above.

I actually will be doing a drive a bit like yours tomorrow. There is a part of that drive where I climb about 4,000 feet over the course of about 80-85 miles. If the temps are around 10-15 degrees Fahrenheit, I go through about 45-48% of my battery on that drive. During the summer it is more like 30% for that same drive, maybe a tad bit more.

It does seem like the 4S with 20" wheels does considerably better than the Turbo with 21" wheels, just based on comments on this forum. During the summer I and others seem to be able to do north of 300 miles of range in the flats on a 4S with 20" wheels.

As others have said, play with A Better Route Planner, but try to go for 20" wheels and consider a charge if it is going to be cold.
 


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The math based on the previous poster, giving the benefit of the doubt where possible as speeds are not indicated.

Previous poster travels 85 miles on 45% charge. So on one hundred per cent charge, he would go (85/45)*100 equals 188.9 miles. This is over an elevation change of 4,000 feet. This is a grade of .89%.

(My bad, it would be 8,000 feet over 188.9 miles). It also appears that the previous poster has a battery reserve factor of safety as he is only travelling half the distance.

The OP has to go 195 miles with an elevation change of 6600 feet. This is a grade of .64%. There does not appear to be a battery reserve factor of safety based on these parameters.

Can he do it?
 
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Some extra data. I also have a place in the mountains that I travel to in my 4S. My experience that the route calculator in the car slightly underestimates range when you are going uphill, and quite a bit downhill.

My journey is 135km and climb 1300m. In winter I've been arriving with 58% charge remaining, starting at 100%. All the elevation increase is in the last 25km, driving at 130kmh up until then and I think averaging about 45 on the mountain roads.

By my calcs that would give 320km / 200 miles range with 3000m / 10000ft elevation gain off a full battery, so yes I think OP can make it.
 
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Tiredoftesla

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Some extra data. I also have a place in the mountains that I travel to in my 4S. My experience that the route calculator in the car slightly underestimates range when you are going uphill, and quite a bit downhill.

My journey is 135km and climb 1300m. In winter I've been arriving with 58% charge remaining, starting at 100%. All the elevation increase is in the last 25km, driving at 130kmh up until then and I think averaging about 45 on the mountain roads.

By my calcs that would give 320km / 200 miles range with 3000m / 10000ft elevation gain off a full battery, so yes I think OP can make it.
I’ll know in a few hours. They have a used Turbo and are loaning me that for 24 hours for a live road test. Only in America! I’ll report back.
 
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Tiredoftesla

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https://abetterrouteplanner.com/
here you can play a bit with you uphill route and check the range. it's topology aware. Also check with your Model S range if that fit's with their calculations.
I think using 20 (or even better: 19) inch wheels makes most of the difference in range.
A Better Route Planner turns the 3 hour MS drive into a 5 -1/2 hour drive with a detour for a 40 minute charge and limits my speed to 55 for the last 3 hr 20 minutes. But it also adds an hour to the MS trip, takes the same detour and a charge stop. So BRP generates pure rubbish.
 
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OP

Tiredoftesla

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After 7-1/2 year of driving Model S's I'm ready for something else. Test drove a 93Kw 4S today and loved it. In terms of fit, finish, handling, and overall quality it is in another league than Tesla. My issue is range. We have a second home 195 miles away and we drive back and forth to regularly, 20-30 times a year. It is at 7600 feet and so we have a 6600 foot vertical climb. My first model S had a 235 mile range and I could make it the 195 miles with about 10 miles left as long as I didn't go over 60 miles an hour. Of course, driving back down I could drive 10 over and get back with 70 miles left. My S100 D has a 330 mile range and I make this drive at 10 mph over, using 270 miles of range to get there. So on paper, the 4S is a dead duck. I explained all this to my Porsche dealer and they of course pointed to all the studies that show the conservative rating of the Porsche and they "promise" that I will be able to make it with no problems. They will not give me a money back guarantee, however. They are considering letting me take a used turbo up there to try it.

My question to the forum: does anybody have real world experience driving to elevation? Would the Turbo and the 4S have the same range?

I have an update to my question. My dealer lent me a used 2020 Turbo to make the drive. and prove range. This car absolutely knocks it out of the park on range.

I drove 5-9 mph over the limit the entire way, exactly as I drive my S100D, in Range Mode. About half the trip was at 70-75 mph. Vertical climb is 6400 feet. I arrived with 45 miles left- the range gap (estimated remaining range minus battery level) actually increased as I drove. This is about equivalent to my S100S. I shouldn’t be surprised-there is only a 6 or 7 kw difference in battery size, and the Taycan is several hundred pounds heavier. What it tells me is that Porsche’s engineering is superb (there’s a shock) both battery and battery management. Coming back, I drove faster and got back with 90 miles left. Porsche clearly under promises and over delivers, the opposite of Tesla.

And the 4S with 19" wheels will do even better.

I am torn on what to do here. The Taycan is clearly a spectacular automobile. The quality is far better than a Tesla, and the options endless. However, the cars could not drive more differently. This really puzzled me and I think the reason is the following. Porsche designed the Taycan their goal was not to develop an electric car but to develop a Porsche powered by electric motors: their target market is Porsche lovers. I believe their goal was for the Tycan to drive exactly like any other Porsche, albeit with far greater acceleration and less noise. And I believe they succeeded.

Elon musk did not set out to build an electric powered car. When Steve Jobs develop the iPhone, it was not a telephone with Email; he created an entirely new and exciting product. And that's what Musk did. He designed and built the only true electric car in the world. It was designed from the get-go not to be an electric powered automobile, but to be the first new electric car. And he succeeded. The first time you drive a model S-and everyone will tell you this-It is shockingly exhilarating to people who are used to driving any IC powered car. And after 7 1/2 years it is still exhilarating. The 4S is a pleasure to drive and handles like a dream. But it is not exhilarating to drive.The interior also feels a bit cramped and the MS feels very spacious even though they are more or less the same size. And of course the Tesla luggage capacity is about five times higher. The Porsche has fabulous options, although charging for things like power mirrors is absolutely absurd-and the Tesla has no options. The Tesla has a terrible Blindspot warning system and does not offer heads up.

I really like both cars and don't know what to do!
 

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If you want the car that looks like it was designed by a child for a 90s computer game, buy the Tesla. If you want the beautiful, balanced and desirable piece of automotive engineering, buy a Taycan.
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