Porsche Please Listen the Customers and change……

porsche_coyote

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I will preface all of this by saying: I think that the Taycan is a superb car. It's amazing to drive, and has exceeded my expectations in all respects except for the software--which is sad given how low my expectations were based on my previous Porsche ownership experiences.

I don't know that I agree with most of the asks on the OP's list, but I think that the thing that Porsche *does* need to learn (quickly) is that software eats the world.

All cars today are basically computer networks with a bunch of devices connected. Ultimately that means that there is a ton of functionality that can be gained solely through the clever application of software. Functions that used to require dedicated hardware can be built using just some imagination and code.

What Porsche (and most other legacy automakers) seem to still miss is that this fact has helped to set consumer expectations thanks to smartphones and even desktop computers in the past decade--where a device purchased years ago continues to gain new capabilities through regular software updates and upgrades. Building cars in such a way that they, too, can't take advantage of this is really idiotic in 2021.

I hear rumblings about VW group having 'gotten' software religion, but there's relatively little evidence yet to support that. Their in-car software for EVs has been buggy and difficult to use, with OTA updates either absent or shockingly infrequent.

As a 2020 Taycan owner I will give Porsche some credit for the new features they delivered with the WMA5 update. That gives me some hope that maybe they 'get it' and will continue to advance older cars via software updates. And then I will take away all of that credit for the fact that the update was something that had to be done at the dealer, and apparently takes even experienced Taycan techs the better part of three days to apply...

Porsche is changing. The mere existence of the Taycan is evidence of that fact. But they're still changing too slowly, and they have a very long way to go.





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TT459S

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1. Is there a list of "known software issues" (and votes for people who agree it is an issue on their car) on this forum (preferably after WMA5/7)? Not talking about another thread, just a simple list we can also share with our dealers or perhaps PCNA or Stuttgart? Would Porsche have a list like this?

2. Is there a list of recalls/bug fixes we could get from the manufacturer? I anyone has one, please publish.

These are very normal practices in the IT/Software business.
 

feye

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...with the WMA5 update. That gives me some hope that maybe they 'get it'...
I am sure they got it, but software takes time. Throwing out an endless stream of buggy, beta features via OTA updates is not the experience I am looking for.

Porsche is changing. The mere existence of the Taycan is evidence of that fact. But they're still changing too slowly, and they have a very long way to go.
Why are they slow? Why do they have a long way to go?

Considering that this is a new platform and a new model, I think the final product is pretty good. With the WMA5, they now can much easier push bug fixes through and make the experience even more refined. After almost a year, I am super happy with my Taycan.
 

feye

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please elaborate on the safety reasons
Just because you asked!

My wife came home last night, got out of the MS90D to plug in the charger and closed the door. The car key was in her handbag at the back seat. After she plugged in the car was locked.

We found the spare key, and I went to the car with her, checked, the car was locked, the charger running but could not unplug it. Pushed all door handles, nothing, all locked.

Unlocked the car with the spare key. Locked the car with the key from the handbag. Key was working, in the car, car locked anyway.
 

kort

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Just because you asked!

My wife came home last night, got out of the MS90D to plug in the charger and closed the door. The car key was in her handbag at the back seat. After she plugged in the car was locked.

We found the spare key, and I went to the car with her, checked, the car was locked, the charger running but could not unplug it. Pushed all door handles, nothing, all locked.

Unlocked the car with the spare key. Locked the car with the key from the handbag. Key was working, in the car, car locked anyway.
those chinese made teslas must have unique issues, I never had such problems with the 3 teslas that I owned.
 

porsche_coyote

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I am sure they got it, but software takes time. Throwing out an endless stream of buggy, beta features via OTA updates is not the experience I am looking for.



Why are they slow? Why do they have a long way to go?

Considering that this is a new platform and a new model, I think the final product is pretty good. With the WMA5, they now can much easier push bug fixes through and make the experience even more refined. After almost a year, I am super happy with my Taycan.
First, I didn't every suggest that the answer was to throw out 'an endless stream of buggy, beta features.' I said that they need to adapt to meet consumer expectations that have been set by other experiences like smartphones and computers.

I understand that Porsche are new to this, but the problem is that it doesn't matter from a competitive or consumer expectations standpoint.

To be super clear: I don't think this matters as much for a car like the Taycan which--while bringing new customers into the fold--is largely built to appeal to Porsche's existing customers. I'm thinking more of what they're going to face with the electric Macan. In that market segment, they're not competing with themselves. Customers have real choices, and those real choices are going to include other companies that are waking up to the value of software.

The reason that they're moving too slowly is that they're still mired in the old auto industry ways of thinking about building cars. The industry has come to rely on suppliers not just for physical components, but for the software that enables them. That makes building a software environment for the vehicle an enormous integration challenge. Porsche need to bridge the gap from the old world to the new, where they take ownership of virtually *all* of the software in the vehicle. As I noted, VW group has made noises about understanding this and moving in this direction, but I'm appalled at how long it's taking them. I'm also concerned by what I'm hearing from people I respect in the software side of the industry in terms of where VW is looking for the talent to take them there. They seem to be taking their old suppliers into the fold rather than looking to real software expertise (though I do know they've tried to recruit a handful of really great software leaders, it's also telling that they haven't succeeded).

I don't want a Tesla. I don't think they're a good company. I think they have some clever engineers who do a few things well, but I question the overall ethics of the company. But we need to acknowledge that they're on to something. Tesla is in the odd position of having (today, anyway), both the highest defect rate in the industry AND one of the highest levels of overall customer satisfaction. If legacy automakers could borrow even a little of the agility and user experience focus of Tesla's software team while retaining a more 'grown-up' focus on quality and safety, I think all of us would benefit enormously, and Tesla would quickly lose its luster.
 

superflytnt

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I’ve been German car lover, BMW, Mercedes, then Jaguar until Tesla released the Model S since 2012, already owned 5 model S cars in my household. Tesla has many many good things and less bad issue, but most of owners love the company like apple. The main reason is that Tesla has listened what customers want and implement in the cars, th following are few. Dog mode is amazing, you can leave your dog and the temperature is set, also shows on the screen that the dog is safe and the car temperature, people asked for Karaoke “done” Joe mode to avoid the car alarms to wake up babies “done” sentry security mode “done” sentry recording and availability to see in the car screen “done” increase Model S 75D 0-60 speed from 5.1 down to 4.1, “ done” Spotify “done” Pin o drive after some Teslas were stolen in Europe “done” Speed limiter in the app after a youth got kill speeding in FL “done” Camping mode A/C and power “done” All of this has been added by Tesla after customers asked via Tweets and update via OTA for free to all Tesla fleet no matter the car model year, only limitation hardware, that is why they got loyalty to the brand because they listen.
Now this what it has to be improved for the Taycan to interact with users the same way the car looks, updated and modern.

1. please let us enter address in the navigation while the car is moving, last week my wife and I have to pull over on the freeway und the storm because the non-sense prohibition of entering an address, your speech recognition and gestures aren’t that good so the ability to enter the address is a most, please we live in a time of people’s not wearing mask in a pandemic so entering the address is not a big deal is worst pulling the cellphone and do it.
2. Add another regenerative mode, I totally understand that people that do track need/want same experience as an ICE car, cool, however one pedal driving is amazing and unique experience that EVs offers and one additional setting won’t affect anyone in fact all your old and new customers will be happy to choose what regen they prefer.
3. Allow us to set driver’s profile driving mode, regen and car sound if possible audio settings too, I feel like a pilot with a checklist every morning setting the can the way I like.
4. Sentry mode like would be nice, you have the cameras and sensor.
5. Allow to use the rear camera on while driving.
6. make simpler the charging settings just slide the finger and choose battery %
7. Allow us to see charging speed per mile and also per hour.
8. Remove the need of app use for ElectrifyAmerica stations, make it plug and charge
9. Add pin to drive, non Tesla has been stolen from owners using it.
Ditto everything. I had a Tesla Model X for five years. I enjoyed watching the car receive feature update after update through the vehicle’s life. While the Taycan is clearly a better driving experience, it’s technology legs behind Tesla’s considerably. Mostly, I hate nanny-mode which restrict me from being able to perform certain functions while the car is driving. Tesla at least treats its drivers like adults, but consider that they allow you to perform functions while driving because their user interface is so far superior to Porsche’s PCM. I hope Porsche spends a great deal of time re-developing the PCM UI and involves their customers as well as takes a look at what Tesla has done in order to improve on the experience even further.
 

Mike in CA

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I've owned my 4S for about a month now and I have almost no complaints. The car is great to drive, is gorgeous inside and out, fit and finish is impeccable and , so far, there have been no glitches. All of the functions and features that I use work just like they are supposed to.

Maybe I bought my Taycan with a set of expectations rooted in a different automotive reality. I don't climb into a car wishing it would interface with me like a smartphone or computer. I expect to turn on the ignition and have it provide a superior driving experience, be safe and reasonably comfortable. If it doesn't do OTA updates, operate the HVAC remotely, drive itself, make fart sounds or what have you I'm less concerned. Not saying some of those things might not be useful (except for the fart sounds), just that they are considerably lower on my priority list. My $.02.

Oh, I said I have almost no complaints. I do have one to add to the "Porsche please listen" list. I don't see any reason why the center console lid can't be designed to hold in the fully open position instead of just half way. For example, when I'm trying to put my phone in the charging cradle, or especially when inserting something in one of the USB-C ports I have to hold the lid open with my elbow. It's just awkward. I guess nothing is perfect.
 

atebit

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Oh, I said I have almost no complaints. I do have one to add to the "Porsche please listen" list. I don't see any reason why the center console lid can't be designed to hold in the fully open position instead of just half way. For example, when I'm trying to put my phone in the charging cradle, or especially when inserting something in one of the USB-C ports I have to hold the lid open with my elbow. It's just awkward.
This. By far, my biggest gripe to date.
 

daveo4EV

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Maybe I bought my Taycan with a set of expectations rooted in a different automotive reality. I don't climb into a car wishing it would interface with me like a smartphone or computer. I expect to turn on the ignition and have it provide a superior driving experience, be safe and reasonably comfortable. If it doesn't do OTA updates, operate the HVAC remotely, drive itself, make fart sounds or what have you I'm less concerned. Not saying some of those things might not be useful (except for the fart sounds), just that they are considerably lower on my priority list. My $.02.
I can understand this perspective, but I still fault Porsche in this case for trying and doing it poorly. They would’ve been better off not doing it at all vs. than how they’ve done it. I agree you don’t need OTA, Wifi, car app and all that - so fine - do not do ANY of that and ship a great car. But Porsche claims they have offerings in this space, and what they’ve done is so bad it actually detracts from many of the excellent things they’ve done…

I agree you don’t need these things, therefore don’t deliver poor implementations of these features and then fail very publicly in front of your customers as you demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt you are in over your head…

I’d rather have no implementation than a bad implementation - any many many aspects of the Taycan are a bad implementation.

in short: demonstrate competence even at the expense of having no offering…what we have now is clear demonstration of incompetence…
  • wifi support is confusing and useless
  • charging user experience is confusing
  • OTA updates are non-existent
  • software updated are a fragile experience that potentially brick your vehicle
  • the porsche connect app is sub-standard
  • 3 separate apps to start a charging session with Electrify America - all 3 of which only work some of the time
  • 12V battery drainage problems (maybe fixed now)
  • random phantom errors with various subsystems
  • plug&charge is hit or miss
  • 19.2 kW charger breaks plug&charge (which doesn’t work)
do a few things well rather than some things well and other’s not so well or really really poorly…
 
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feye

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those chinese made teslas must have unique issues, I never had such problems with the 3 teslas that I owned.
Imported - when we bought it new, there was no factory in China.
 

feye

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First, I didn't every suggest that the answer was to throw out 'an endless stream of buggy, beta features.' I said that they need to adapt to meet consumer expectations that have been set by other experiences like smartphones and computers.

I understand that Porsche are new to this, but the problem is that it doesn't matter from a competitive or consumer expectations standpoint.
What a different point of view!

I want to drive a sports car, not a gizmo. I have enough gizmo at home and in my life, I want less in my car when I drive.
 

Mike in CA

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in short: demonstrate competence even at the expense of having no offering…what we have now is clear demonstration of incompetence…
  • wifi support is confusing and useless
  • charging user experience is confusing
  • OTA updates are non-existent
  • software updated are a fragile experience that potentially brick your vehicle
  • the porsche connect app is sub-standard
  • 3 separate apps to start a charging session with Electrify America - all 3 of which only work some of the time
  • 12V battery drainage problems (maybe fixed now)
  • random phantom errors with various subsystems
  • plug&charge is hit or miss
  • 19.2 kW charger breaks plug&charge (which doesn’t work)
do a few things well rather than some things well and other’s not so well or really really poorly…
I do understand your point. Fortunately for me, to date I've either not had problems with any of the issues you list or they are inconsequential because they weren't part of my expectation in the first place and have no impact on my enjoyment of the car.

Porsche did underachieve on some of their promises regarding the Taycan. OTOH, they excelled at delivering on the vehicle attributes that are most important to me. Also, as long as we're assessing competence, to be fair we should grade Porsche's competition which has a history of producing a product with inferior quality control and a tendency of their own to overpromise and underdeliver in some areas. I suppose it depends on which promised features one values the most. As I already stated, nothing is perfect. ;)
 
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feye

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do a few things well rather than some things well and other’s not so well or really really poorly…
I don't agree on your list, but I certainly agree with that.
 

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