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WLG2 Campaign -- software updates

Miwa

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I’m interested in Porsche’s release management strategy and understanding how they’re going to flow updates out to the growing fleet.
The same way they do updates for all their other cars. You go in (usually at your yearly service) and any outstanding updates get applied.
 

KensingtonPark

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Has anyone figured out which data elements are key to confirming that the update was performed? Which of these:
  • User Interface
  • Software Version
  • Hardware Version
And how do you navigate to the menu that shows this?
 

cd77

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Regarding OTA:
I think one of the main roadblocks for the legacy manufacturers is standardization.
Tesla has dealt with this topic many years ago and figured out a solution of their own. But the legacy OEMs now each for themselves (supposedly) have to figure out a solution. And the suppliers have to customize hard- and software to the OEMs individual approaches and needs. That's most likely what's taking them so long.

I am chairman of an ISO standardization working group. And in the sub-committee which my WG is part of they founded a new working group last year called "software update". But the focus topic is actually OTA. Japan was the main driver behind founding this working group, and they also provide the chairman. I'd have to check but I think they started working on an ISO standard already on OTA. But again we are talking about legacy OEMs. I highly doubt that Tesla is a member in this WG.

Until such a new standard is created from scratch, finalised and published three to four years pass by easily. Then, this new standard needs to be implemented into the development processes at OEMs and suppliers. Until we see vehicles released with OTA according to such a standard some ten years might have passed. So, all of us have to bear with the situation as it is.

But of course, for my personal sake I hope I will be proven wrong - in a positive way. :)
 
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Cpoarchy

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How would you know anything other than PCM updates? The important ones in this are all the subsystem updates.
I was Just going by the software and release version posted earlier, is there a another way to look up subsystem software version?
 

wemct

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I was Just going by the software and release version posted earlier, is there a another way to look up subsystem software version?
@Cpoarchy - if I recall correctly you bought your car from an out of state dealer. My advise is to call or send an email to the service department at the dealer that sold you the car. Ask them to look up your VIN and determine if your car is subject to the recall. My out of state selling dealer was very responsive. I will have the campaign done at my current local dealer. Some cars only need the software updates, others need hardware too (new 12v battery, etc.). Mine only needs the software.
 

dnanian

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Folks, the PCM and Nav versions aren't the same. This full update is considered to be VR8.7, and the move from VR8.6 (aka WLC5) doesn't have a PCM component (surprisingly, given the errors there, but they're obviously not P1).

As such, I don't think you're going to see any reflection of the version in PCM. You can only see it by checking each subsystem version using the Porsche computer at the dealer (and the warranty booklet supposedly gets marked with the campaign completion, at least from what I've read).

FYI, the WLC5 update takes around 120 minutes to install. WLG2 takes about 100 minutes...not including WLC5, which is a prerequisite. So, if you don't have that, it's 220 minutes of shop time, not counting any hardware updates, and not counting any failed flashes.

Also, I've read that updates to PCM are actually done with a flash drive connected to USB, and not via the normal Porsche computer. Seems likely that any OTAs are going to be for the PCM, given the totally different path, and not the rest of the car, which is obviously more critical.
 
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evanevery

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...Tesla has dealt with this topic many years ago and figured out a solution of their own...
Tesla didn't "figure this out" Because they have "dealt with it for years". They figured it out because they started with a clean slate and built the capability as a core component and function. It was implemented as a foundation in their code.

Established manufacturers are much less likely to do this properly as they have years and years of firmware which they will undoubtedly look to port into new models. They won't ignore their existing code base and start over. Its too easy (and much cheaper) to take the firmware they already have and modify it to work with a new platform. ...and its much, much, harder to take existing code and THEN try to figure out how to build a secure OTA update environment around it. OTA has to be at the core of the design. The hardware also has to be capable of implementing a relatively complete firmware update remotely.

This is likely why Porsche has failed to deliver full OTA Update capability. Depending on the physical hardware, it may not even be possible to improve the coverage with a future software update. Its the difference between hardware, firmware, and software.
 

Toby Pennycuff

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I wonder if any of these changes will improve the car's compatibility with fast charging improving the success rate for starting a charging session.
I did notice that the ChargingAmerica app had an update yesterday.

Can it be??? Porsche and EA actually talk to each other??
 

JC Mann

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I thought we could get OTA updates. All updates have to be done by a dealer???
“Possible” does not mean “Utilized”
1. May still be reluctant to take the leap of faith.
2. May still be beta testing. You have to program for possible OTA interruption in the middle so vehicle can still function after failed, partial update.
 

dnanian

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This is likely why Porsche has failed to deliver full OTA Update capability.
I really disagree with this.

It has less to do with porting a code base, and more the fact that they have an established and extensive dealer network, and less of an appetite for unnecessary risk.

A bad flash in a workshop is an easy fix, wheres a bricked car is not.

Also, consider that the opportunity to have a positive customer touchpoint generally benefits the brand. A loaner may be an experience with a better or newer vehicle. The service department is in the same location as the showroom, parts department, etc.

Tesla doesn't benefit from any of these effects, and they figure they can fix a bad flash by sending out a tech, customer mobility issue be damned. It's generally cheaper for them (again, not counting any secondary effects). And they don't do any in-person sales (basically). My local Tesla service center is just a garage with a waiting room...
 

louv

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...

Also, consider that the opportunity to have a positive customer touchpoint generally benefits the brand. A loaner may be an experience with a better or newer vehicle. The service department is in the same location as the showroom, parts department, etc.
...
Agreed. (except in the Times-of-Covid, we're not allowed in their building to visit Parts. Someday... some... day...)
I just wish I could have a 911, a 718, or another Taycan as a loaner. #FirstWorldProblems. :cool:
 

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evanevery

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I really disagree with this.

It has less to do with porting a code base, and more the fact that they have an established and extensive dealer network, and less of an appetite for unnecessary risk.

A bad flash in a workshop is an easy fix, wheres a bricked car is not.

Also, consider that the opportunity to have a positive customer touchpoint generally benefits the brand. A loaner may be an experience with a better or newer vehicle. The service department is in the same location as the showroom, parts department, etc.

Tesla doesn't benefit from any of these effects, and they figure they can fix a bad flash by sending out a tech, customer mobility issue be damned. It's generally cheaper for them (again, not counting any secondary effects). And they don't do any in-person sales (basically). My local Tesla service center is just a garage with a waiting room...
Whether a flash fails in a driveway or in a shop, there doesn't have to be any reason that it could not be fixed in a shop (or with a mobile tech). In the first case, you get the ongoing convenience of a driveway flash and ONLY have to bring the car to the shop (or get a visit) on the extremely rare case it somehow fails. In the second case you must ALWAYS bring the car to the shop.

Its only an "unnecessary risk" if its a relatively poor implementation.

I have had my Model-X for about 5 years now. The OTA updates are actually pretty anticlimactic ...and that's a good thing. ("Hey - another update!"...) I've never had an OTA update fail and I'm unaware of any systematic issues with Tesla's implementation. In fact, if I DID have an update fail, I'ld rather have a tech come to me than have to bring the car to the shop... I am quite happy, as are most owners, with the convenience of the Tesla OTA system. Its unfortunate, the Taycan does not (yet?) have this...

This is all about the quality and depth of the OTA logic. It is quite possible to create an implementation that would NEVER "brick" anything (short of a hardware failure) if the proper hardware, logic, and design were in place. As a developer of microprocessor firmware, I can assure you this is possible.

The "proof is in the pudding"... Ask any Tesla owner if they would trade their OTA updates to start bringing their car into a local shop... Shouldn't the feature of OTA updates be about the customer (and NOT the shop)?
 
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thecoloradokid

thecoloradokid

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  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #59
With that, I think we have officially beaten the OTA subject to pieces now. I think I speak for everyone when I say that it will be great when Porsche rolls out full OTA capability, but until then, it does not take anything away from being a Taycan owner.

I am on day 2 of having the WLG2 updates and in the 25 miles I have put on the car, I have not noticed anything different. The new 12v battery works seems to be working now, so hopefully the update has rectified the software issues that caused the battery to drain.

As a "shakedown" drive post software updates, I am going to do a 200 mile drive tomorrow, and hit a couple of EA chargers. I want to see how the software update affects driving, range, and charging.
 

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Just got back from the dealership. Here is my experience:
1. Service guys were awesome - schedule on short notice, bend over backward to help
2. All parties (service people and myself) got frustrated with the speed of the update (this was the first Taycan they updated). I brought in the car at ~ 9AM, at 1 PM it was still downloading..... All done by 4:30 PM (as pointed out above, some cars may need 2 updates). To quote one of them "we thought Panamera updates were difficult / complex; this is in a different ballpark". So be prepared for a full day or even overnight service if you go now. The service slot is automatically booked for 2 hours. I can imagine the service is not happy when the car occupies a place just downloading for hours on end..... Porsche had to find a different solution - download to USB, local computer, whatever.....
3. As mentioned above, nothing is different - which is good, considering all bits and pieces worked well in my car.
4. For someone like me who lives 90 miles from the closest dealership, OTA is gold. I echo previous comments on Tesla - 3 cars, 5 years, I did not event count how many updates, all flawless in my case.

On a separate note, since yesterday evening (i.e., prior to update, but after the introduction of the WLG2 campaign, my car can no longer be reached through the Porsche server (vehicle not available). Annoying, since remote climate control depends on that connection.

Even worst, this morning I got into the car to enable direct charge for the trip to Minneapolis (could not select my trip charging profile since "vehicle is unavailable"). With the phone in the car, and clear connection between car and phone, the Porsche connect app does diddly squat.... It still says "vehicle unavailable" even if it is clearly connected to the PCM.

Obviously, Apple Music does not work on PCM ("no connection, try again later").

I hope this is all related to the server being overwhelmed by the updates and it comes back to some sort of functioning status over the week-end.
 

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