at what point do we stop apologizing for Porsche

[fullmetalbaal]

Yes. Please post.

You have a ‘21 and I believe those supported FoD, which is considered OTA, isn’t it?

I’m interested in seeing the scope and source of what you were promised.

Will do. It was part of the package they sent to the original sign onto waitlist that some people paid money for and others could just put a name onto a list. You got a little metal plate, a little white ceramic (?) taycan model and a little flyer outlining stats in flowery language. 300kw charging, OTA and 300 miles were some of the stats I remember.

And I'm sure that piece of paper had all the proper legalese to ensure that it's not a real claim I have wrt misleading marketing. My point is only that my expectations were not about a Mission E concept, but rather the claims for Taycan specifically.

You can even go into the newsroom right now, and they talk about "further enhancing OTA", ie "we already have it". When what the true expectation is in 2022 is really FOTA, because that is the bar that Tesla and others set. And neither the state before this new update nor the one after seems to be truly at that level yet.

Sponsored

 

[Deleted member 7736]

Just so I'm clear, a Canadian Tesla fanboy website is your "proof" that Porsche promised frequent OTA updates that they've reneged on. Got it.

 

[daveo4EV]

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/bloomberg-article-about-vw-software-problems.12531/

prolonging the problems plaguing VW customers. Drivers’ car displays are seizing up and even going blank. For owners to gain the ability to get over-the-air updates of certain features — some of which may be safety-critical — VW is requiring many to drop their EV off for a day at the dealership. Infotainment systems reliant on software described as incomplete are making their way to more models, threatening VW’s position in sales and quality rankings.

I hadn’t expected to buy a car that was unfinished,” said Christopher Bergsten, a 31-year-old in Linkoping, Sweden, who sold his ID.4 sport utility vehicle after less than six months. “I expected way more.”

One a-ha moment that year came when Consumer Reports initially denied a recommendation for the Model 3, saying it took longer to stop than the much larger Ford F-150 pickup. Musk tweeted the next day that Tesla would maybe be able to shorten stopping distances through an over-the-air update. The following week, Consumer Reports recommended the sedan after all — braking improved by almost 20 feet.
Much as that episode turned heads across the auto industry, VW and its legacy peers haven’t deployed software updates nearly as frequently as Tesla.

you can ignore these issues because you personally don't care and think it's all BS - but Porsche's inability to master this stuff WILL affect it's ability to survive - you can only sell to a declining demographic for so long before it becomes too small to service…

if you don't care of this stuff I'm pretty confident you are the minority opinion - and that means you won't have Porsche around in the future to service the things you do care about.

 

[Deleted member 7736]

To be clear (and so we can stop running around in circles) the premise of this whole thread seems to be that Porsche have promised something (OTA updates) that they have not delivered. All I'm asking is for you to show where they promised this, and not something like FOD OTA.

If the argument is simply that OTA would be nice, I think we can all agree on that. But you seem quite intent on arguing that you've somehow been deceived and anyone that is not as upset about this as you is an apologist.

 

[Jhenson29]

It was part of the package they sent to the original sign onto waitlist that some people paid money for and others could just put a name onto a list. You got a little metal plate, a little white ceramic (?) taycan model and a little flyer outlining stats in flowery language. 300kw charging, OTA and 300 miles were some of the stats I remember.

I was on an early waitlist (2018) and have a lot that too. I’m really interested in whether or not you have something that promises OTA at the level you expect; or if you just carried that expectation over from another manufacturer.

If it just says “OTA” and the car does OTA in some capacity (just not your expected capacity), then it’s more an issue of not meeting your expectations than failing to deliver on a promised claim.

It seems, to satisfy some people’s expectations, it would have to be everything OTA, and I just haven’t ever seen where that has ever been claimed. It sure has been assumed a lot though.

Note that I’ve asked this of numerous people numerous times. No one has ever produced anything.

 

[daveo4EV]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/porsche-taycan-specs-sale-date-performance

Sept. 9, 2019 - Porsche promised this feature see quote below from the 2019 article - it was part of all the press briefings about the car - but kudos for the attempt of revisionisty history - yeah Porsche doesn't do that but they never said they would is weak sauce. They did say, they haven't done it, and they are changing the goal posts - in fact they are screwing up at this soooo badly that the CEO lost his job over it - yeah it's not important at all.

Other features include wireless software updates, which can upgrade battery and charging performance and infotainment functionality over the air

 

[Jhenson29]

Sept. 9, 2019 - Porsche promised this feature see quote below from the 2019 article - it was part of all the press briefings about the car - but kudos for the attempt of revisionisty history

Meh, pretty limited description. Doesn’t feel like the all-encompassing promise. More like suggestions of potential.

 

[TDinDC]

Might I humbly suggest that focusing solely on OTA is missing the point.

Porsche makes amazing cars. Even its first EV is pretty great (by the way, someone bashed the first boxster earlier in this thread and I nearly went on attack—love boxsters myself). But It makes shitty software/electronics/user interfaces/manuals etc.

it seems so unnecessary at this price. You can love the brand and still hate this aspect of it. Nothing wrong with that.

I mean, if you are a fanboi I’m tempted to crticize, but if you’re a hater I’m tempted to praise. I actually feel exactly the same about Tesla, but they are polar opposite doppelgängers for Taycans

 

[Deleted member 7736]

When I was six years old, I asked Santa for a surfboard for Christmas. Come Christmas day, I was handed a small box to open as my gift from Santa. I opened it up to reveal a Mickey Mouse watch. Boy, was I *&#$ off! I was promised a surf board!

Let me make my request to you even more specific. I'm sure you're familiar with the "internet wayback machine": archive.org. This tool allows you to go look up a snapshot of any website at any point in time. I just went and had a quick glance. The first time the Taycan appears on the Porsche USA website is Dec. 2019. I've looked at the website for the Taycan at a few different points in time since then, and cannot find any "promise" or even mention of frequent OTA updates as a feature of the car. If you can point me to it, I'd love to see it and will happily admit I was wrong. If you want to cite Motortrend and Tesla sites and your cousin Bob and Santa Clause as sources of this "promised but as of yet unfulfilled functionality" I'm not quite sure what else to tell you.

 

[TYKHAAAN]

Sorry you had all these issues with your car OP. I get OTA updates all the time that install at home just fine. The two software updates that the car had to go in for, only took about a day and a half. I’ve had a couple issues for sure with the car, but it’s been in my garage and on the road 99.9% of the time I’ve owned it in about 2 years. EA also started off rough for me, but has been pretty reliable last year or so for me, and I road trip a lot, 29k miles on my car already.
Now yes, the software is garbage, and I did have to turn my charging unit power down in summer, but my problems have been minor in my opinion. I’ve owned other first year model vehicles and I had just as many, if not more problems and recalls. It just goes with being an early adopter. I dont make apologies for any car maker, but this has been an excellent car. Way happier than if I went with Tesla, as I know there are many folks who have many other issues with them, but not all do as most have been just fine there too.

Dont want to invalidate your feelings tho, you are definitely entitled to be upset with the issues your car has given you.

 

[feye]

• factually my Taycan has personally spent more days in service in two year than all 6 of my Tesla's combined - Porsche quality vs. Tesla quality don't make me laugh

friendly discussions only please ;-) but I believe these are issues worth wasting time on an internet forum about.

How can it be friendly if you push your T stock junk to Porsche customers?



Even the gullible main stream media caught up with the scam. And for the hardware, 225 pages of bliss!

 

[daveo4EV]

I do not, will not, and have never owned Tesla stock - or optioned it, traded it, looked at it x-eyed or interacted with it.

I have no position for/against/neutral in Tesla stock (unless some funds I participate in own it but I'm not directly responsible for what my investment funds participate in).

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

@Dee the derailment was only temporary, we're back on track now.

@daveo4EV this thread, if I'm not mistaken, started with a rhetorical question and, I think, by now you've gotten your answer: it depends. Some people will keep making excuses even after, say, their rear bumpers fall off while driving through a puddle, while others will not tolerate anything other than 5-seconds OTA and ice-cold charging equipment. We come from different backgrounds, have different expectations, and that's all you'll find out with threads like these.

I've learned a lot, by the way, reading your posts over time, and I'm grateful for it. I'm sure I'm not alone. Which makes the purpose of this thread that much more perplexing.

 

[nikc]

Porsche makes amazing cars.

Citation needed.

Let me quote from my most recent e-mail to the dealership:

---

To reiterate what I said on the phone: I do not care what Porsche have told you. During my conversations with them they have made it very clear that the expect the dealership to own the relationship with the customer, and they do not want to talk to me directly.

Since you (the dealership, not you personally) sold me this car, it has suffered from numerous hardware and software issues, including:

• A known problem with the alarm system that required hardware replacement.
• A known problem with the camera installation that required hardware replacement.
• A known problem with the indicator cluster that required hardware replacement.
• A known problem with the ParkAssist systems that required hardware replacement.
• A known problem with the accounts system that meant my account is sometimes unavailable.

All of these were issues that Porsche knew about and did not disclose before I purchased the car.

Other issues include:

An electrical system fault that necessitated replacing a voltage regulator.

• The speed control systems selecting dangerous or illegal speeds.
• Blank or non-responsive driver displays (the most recent example was Tuesday, ).
• The navigation and other systems stopping and reloading while driving.
• The navigation system showing different active routes on the different displays.

Then there was:

• A tire pressure problem that showed while I was sitting in the car at the dealership before driving away for the first time, and that I was told was normal.
• The driver rear-side window assembly not being fixed properly.
• Missing clips for the rear parcel shelf.

It's clear that a comprehensive pre-customer-handover check was not done.

And most pertinent to this issue, the car changing gear without any driver input. This has happened repeatedly, is also a problem that was known to Porsche before I purchased the car, and was not disclosed to me.

By my estimate, I have driven over 1,000km to and from Firststrasse to get these issues fixed. That's about 8% of the driving I've done since I purchased the car.

This is completely unacceptable.

It is very clear that Porsche's hardware and software quality control is very poor, the wider group's CEO was recently fired, reportedly in part for failure to deliver software quality on time.

The software failure that changes gears without driver input resulted in damage to the car. Damage that could have been avoided if you had recalled the car here as instructed to by Porsche bulletin #2209 which clearly states "Please immediately provide the customer with a Porsche Mobility Loaner Vehicle" until the issue is fixed (I have attached a second copy, I have previously sent you a copy of this).

I expect that damage to be fixed.
---

 

[TDinDC]

Citation needed.

Let me quote from my most recent e-mail to the dealership:

---

Making amazing cars and also occasionally making a Lemon are not mutually exclusive.
Sorry you have a lemon. None of my 7 have had any problems like this.

Sponsored