Porsche NFT, anyone?

[Edward]

Well, indirectly you are. They effectively paid you by giving you a discount on certain travel and experience services and in return you’re basically developing and publishing marketing content for them.

Isn't every enthusiast on TaycanForum, Rennlist, etc. a "shill", in that case? Did you get a free hat at the 75th anniversary / Festival of Dreams event hosted by your local dealership? Authentic grassroots marketing is what keeps Porsche so popular among its enthusiasts. Ferrari, arguably, does an even better job because their cars are even less attainable, yet thousands (millions?) of people buy expensive hats, shirts, jackets, etc. to cheer on that brand and its F1 team.

EDIT: I was just thinking about who does the best job of grassroots marketing -- it's gotta be Tesla and their referral program. All of us as Taycan owners have probably seen the rampant fanboy-ism of Tesla owners at some point! How many websites and YouTube channels were started because of this program, and how many of those creators got a free car? Meanwhile, for every free car given away, Tesla sold how many cars at full price? And how much has Tesla spent on Super Bowl ads?

NFTs as art are basically worthless. It was obvious to some from the start.

Yeah, I'm kinda in agreement with you on that point. Art is so far outside my wheelhouse that I couldn't tell you if a painting is worth $50 or $50M. It's important to some people, for sure. So back to my point -- how does Porsche broaden its addressable market beyond the traditional car enthusiast demographic?

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[daveo4EV]

in this case the NFT is effectively a "ticket" for a VIP program and proves my basic assertion - it's an un-necessary complication for something that is well solved - making this an NFT solved _NO PROBLEM_ - it simply consumed un-necessary compute power to do something digitally that could've been solved with non-Crypto technology - the crypto in this case did nothing to enhance the program, administer the program or even provide _ANY_ service that could not have been solved in a cheaper and equally effective manner using existing mechanisms…

it's either a SCAM or un-necessary or skirting some legal limitation - that is the ONLY use for crypto so far…

I buy tickets to concerts/VIP programs all the time with out the need for the computational overhead of crypto.

NFT's are pointless - if they aren't a SCAM they are un-necessaryly complex/expensive to administer - I wonder how many kWh's were burned for this NFT indulgence…and how much fewer kWh's would've been consumed using existing and effective "ticketing" mechanisms.

 

[snstevens]

Isn't every enthusiast on TaycanForum, Rennlist, etc. a "shill", in that case? Did you get a free hat at the 75th anniversary / Festival of Dreams event hosted by your local dealership? Authentic grassroots marketing is what keeps Porsche so popular among its enthusiasts. Ferrari, arguably, does an even better job because their cars are even less attainable, yet thousands (millions?) of people buy expensive hats, shirts, jackets, etc. to cheer on that brand and its F1 team.

EDIT: I was just thinking about who does the best job of grassroots marketing -- it's gotta be Tesla and their referral program. All of us as Taycan owners have probably seen the rampant fanboy-ism of Tesla owners at some point! How many websites and YouTube channels were started because of this program, and how many of those creators got a free car? Meanwhile, for every free car given away, Tesla sold how many cars at full price? And how much has Tesla spent on Super Bowl ads?




Yeah, I'm kinda in agreement with you on that point. Art is so far outside my wheelhouse that I couldn't tell you if a painting is worth $50 or $50M. It's important to some people, for sure. So back to my point -- how does Porsche broaden its addressable market beyond the traditional car enthusiast demographic?

To me the quickest way Porsche can expand it's addressable market is to put out EVs at a range of prices (the way they did with Cayenne and Macan) AND provide access to a High Speed charging network that has the performance and reliability expected of a high performance luxury car company.

The existing EA network is problematic every time I try to use it (typically charging at 50-100KW - nowhere near the advertised 350KW rate), and that is when it the stations aren't broken and offline. So instead of fixing this urgent problem so they are ready to fully support Taycans, and a new Macan EV, they are screwing around with NFTs?

Honestly, whoever thought this was a good idea should be fired. If they want to add some bling to their event admissions, put out a titanium card - good enough.

 

[Edward]

NFT's are pointless - if they aren't a SCAM they are un-necessaryly complex/expensive to administer - I wonder how many kWh's were burned for this NFT indulgence…and how much fewer kWh's would've been consumed using existing and effective "ticketing" mechanisms.

Hey Dave,
I appreciate the discussion, especially because I've been on multiple threads with you on this forum where you've laid out good engineering analysis.

Re: energy consumption, you made me genuinely curious because I'm not inherently a web3 proponent. The argument sounded much like the "your EV still burns coal" argument that every Taycan owner has heard at some point. It turns out that you're right re: kWh consumption for Bitcoin, but Ethereum (which is the blockchain where most NFTs live) uses 99.95% less energy than Bitcoin. This is because Ethereum switched away from Proof-of-Work to Proof-of-Stake last year:

Proof of Work: Security via Energy Consumption
With Proof of Work (PoW) consensus mechanisms, a new block can only be added if the block hash is calculated via an incredibly complex equation. It can take trillions of guesses before that value is randomly discovered by a miner. Which can consume a lot of power. Only the miner who achieves this first will confirm the block and be rewarded. In this system, energy is the resource the network uses to secure itself. The huge amount of energy required to overcome the blockchain’s consensus mechanism is a key deterrent for bad actors.

Proof of Stake: Security via Staked Coins
A proof-of-stake network like Ethereum secures itself via staked cryptocurrency. Instead of expending computing energy to solve a puzzle, the nodes validating new transactions stake their own value as collateral. These nodes then run efficiently and honestly to avoid losing that collateral.

Meanwhile, any bad actor wishing to gain control over the network would need to own more than 51% of the coins staked at that time. Controlling 51% of all staked coins on the network is so difficult that it makes such an attack extremely unlikely. This is how the consensus mechanism that secures Proof of Stake networks works.

Re: problem to be solved -- you're right that these use cases in web3 can be solved using existing technologies. I actually liken it to Digital Rights Management -- how can an IP owner ensure the authenticity of their asset, be it an event ticket, supply chain traceability, or a JPG of a stupid monkey? The conventional means is a centralized organization like Ticketmaster. The alternative is a decentralized network, which is web3. Amazon, IBM, and Microsoft use blockchain for internal and customer-facing use cases.

This particular thread is academically interesting to me because it is about a new technology that causes a strong reaction. Much like EVs (even today) and Web 1.0 (back in the 90s). EV opponents say ICE will never win because of X, Y, Z. Much like back in the early days of the Internet when email spam and nonsensical e-commerce like Pets.com or WebVan were rampant. It seems likely a decentralized network (blockchain) can support legitimate and interesting use cases.

 

[Edward]

To me the quickest way Porsche can expand it's addressable market is to put out EVs at a range of prices (the way they did with Cayenne and Macan) AND provide access to a High Speed charging network that has the performance and reliability expected of a high performance luxury car company.

The existing EA network is problematic every time I try to use it (typically charging at 50-100KW - nowhere near the advertised 350KW rate), and that is when it the stations aren't broken and offline. So instead of fixing this urgent problem so they are ready to fully support Taycans, and a new Macan EV, they are screwing around with NFTs?

But is that truly a quick way to expand an addressable market? This is a marketing funnel problem; Porsche is inherently an exclusive, up-market brand, and the intersection of that audience with people who want an EV is shown by current Taycan sales and trade-in values. The oft-delayed Macan EV will start at a six-figure MSRP before maybe trickling down to current 4-cylinder base Macan prices ($61K).

Re: charging network, as much as I'd love to see a network of Porsche Charging Lounges open in the US, you know that cannot happen given the vastness of this country and the relatively low EV adoption. It's still chicken & egg, and maybe plugging in to the Tesla Supercharger network (pun intended) could be the way to go.

I will say that in 3 years & 30K miles of Taycan ownership, the EA charging network during road trips was the single biggest PITA.

Honestly, whoever thought this was a good idea should be fired. If they want to add some bling to their event admissions, put out a titanium card - good enough.

So this takes me back to the marketing funnel -- what are ways to build awareness and preference for Porsche cars for someone who's not yet in a position to buy a $61K Macan let alone a $90K Taycan? So far, I can think of:

• Sports endorsements / sponsorships like the WTA Porsche Tennis Grand Prix and ambassadors like Emma Raducanu.
• Porsche Drive rentals & subscriptions
• eSports involvement, including the Porsche eSports Challenge USA on Gran Turismo 7
• Movie placements, like Transformers
• Marketing activations like SXSW in Austin
• Virtual 911 ownership via the Porsche NFT

Detlev von Platen, former CEO of PCNA, said, "Our entry model is our pre-owned program." Which is a polite way of maintaining a premium brand while saying FU to those who can't afford one. So how do you even get today's 18 year old who is more interested in using their iPhone in their bedroom than learning to drive to even consider aspiring to a Porsche 911 or Taycan in 20 years?

So I definitely suspect it's a multi-pronged / spaghetti-against-a-wall approach.

 

[snstevens]

@Edward - As I said above, Marketing is not my thing. However, I’m beginning to appreciate that you really care about this, have some interesting ideas, and that’s OK with me.

But can we all agree that what Porsche clients, current and future, really need most, is access to a reliable, high-speed charging network?

 

[Tsingtao]

NFT's like all crypto are a scam and mostly worthless like Elivis collectors plates - It saddens me to see any legitimate company such as Porsche involved.

What??? My Elvis collector plates are worthless? (Sh*t!) Don't be sad, if people are dumb enough to pay a lot of money for something of no real value, I commend Porsche and others for being smart enough to take their money. Car NFTs are just the logical digital extension of what Porsche is already doing in the physical world. Take the Porsche Design clothing catalog for example: pictured below is a $145 t-shirt with the words "Porsche Design" embroidered on the sleeve of an otherwise $10 Made-in-Malaysia cotton rag. As long as what Porsche is doing does not hurt the brand image, I say go for it.

 

[Jhenson29]

What??? My Elvis collector plates are worthless?

My 9 year old would give you a lot of money for them.

If he had any money.

Spoiler; he doesn’t. Sorry.

 

[gnop1950]

95% of NFTs are now worthless I often read TheRegister, I'm a hardcore geek, and thought this article was relevant to the current discussion.

 

[BigBob]

What??? My Elvis collector plates are worthless? (Sh*t!) Don't be sad, if people are dumb enough to pay a lot of money for something of no real value, I commend Porsche and others for being smart enough to take their money. Car NFTs are just the logical digital extension of what Porsche is already doing in the physical world. Take the Porsche Design clothing catalog for example: pictured below is a $145 t-shirt with the words "Porsche Design" embroidered on the sleeve of an otherwise $10 Made-in-Malaysia cotton rag. As long as what Porsche is doing does not hurt the brand image, I say go for it.

$1 more like!

 

[Edward]

But can we all agree that what Porsche clients, current and future, really need most, is access to a reliable, high-speed charging network?

Yes, and this is table stakes for the success of EVs in the US. But just as Porsche did not build gas stations in 1963 for the original 911, maybe Porsche should not directly own / build fast DC charging stations? This seems like a solution best served by EA, ChargePoint, or in conjunction with other EV makers?

I'm actually most optimistic for the DC fast chargers being installed at highway "truck stops" like Love's Travel Stops, TravelCenters (TA), or Bucee's. You've got to have a place where EV owners can stop for 15-20 minutes to have a break, rather than just being forced to charge behind a Walmart.

 

[Edward]

95% of NFTs are now worthless I often read TheRegister, I'm a hardcore geek, and thought this article was relevant to the current discussion.

Yes, just as 95% of apps in the Apple App Store and Google Play Store are worthless. There's also this piece from the Daily Mail in 2000 that didn't age well:

Blockchain, as a technology, is designed to allow decentralized source-of-truth. Event ticketing that decouples the reliance on Ticketmaster or reseller sites is one promising use case. So could Porsche offer some unique experiences to NFT holders in a way that cannot be counterfeited? For example, participate in so many PEC or Track Experiences or Club activities such that it can help you earn "points" towards a scarce vehicle allocation?

FYI, this Porsche NFT is a project from Porsche Digital. So there is some autonomy from the divisions that build or sell cars, but my understanding is that all divisions collaborate at some level.

 

[whitex]

Yes, just as 95% of apps in the Apple App Store and Google Play Store are worthless. There's also this piece from the Daily Mail in 2000 that didn't age well:

Blockchain, as a technology, is designed to allow decentralized source-of-truth. Event ticketing that decouples the reliance on Ticketmaster or reseller sites is one promising use case. So could Porsche offer some unique experiences to NFT holders in a way that cannot be counterfeited? For example, participate in so many PEC or Track Experiences or Club activities such that it can help you earn "points" towards a scarce vehicle allocation?

FYI, this Porsche NFT is a project from Porsche Digital. So there is some autonomy from the divisions that build or sell cars, but my understanding is that all divisions collaborate at some level.

The issue is that you don’t need a decentralized source of truth for applications such as ticketing. It adds unnecessary complexity and per-edit-transaction cost. It’s a sledge hammer to kill a mosquito approach. We could record every single keystroke of a court stenographer on a blockchain to have a decentralized source of true court records, including any live edits the stenographer does, but we don’t need it, and it would be prohibitively expensive. Furthermore, if everything goes into the same chain/network, it becomes a single point of vulnerability, which is also bad.

I always thought blockchain to be a fascinating technology. However, to date, I have yet to come across a compelling usage scenario which cannot be accomplished via less complex and/or cheaper solutions. It seems blockchain is a solution still looking for a problem.

 

[Archimedes]

Yes, just as 95% of apps in the Apple App Store and Google Play Store are worthless. There's also this piece from the Daily Mail in 2000 that didn't age well:

Blockchain, as a technology, is designed to allow decentralized source-of-truth. Event ticketing that decouples the reliance on Ticketmaster or reseller sites is one promising use case. So could Porsche offer some unique experiences to NFT holders in a way that cannot be counterfeited? For example, participate in so many PEC or Track Experiences or Club activities such that it can help you earn "points" towards a scarce vehicle allocation?

And you’d need NFTs/blockchain to do that why?

Overly complex solution to a simple problem. That mostly doesn’t even exist.

 

[daveo4EV]

The issue is that you don’t need a decentralized source of truth for applications such as ticketing. It adds unnecessary complexity and per-edit-transaction cost. It’s a sledge hammer to kill a mosquito approach. We could record every single keystroke of a court stenographer on a blockchain to have a decentralized source of true court records, including any live edits the stenographer does, but we don’t need it, and it would be prohibitively expensive. Furthermore, if everything goes into the same chain/network, it becomes a single point of vulnerability, which is also bad.

I always thought blockchain to be a fascinating technology. However, to date, I have yet to come across a compelling usage scenario which cannot be accomplished via less complex and/or cheaper solutions. It seems blockchain is a solution still looking for a problem.

+100 for this after 30+ years in profession commerical/consumer software space - every problem blockchain/crypto "solves" can be solved (or is already) solved with a much cheaper approach - and decentralized is a lark and holds no water because you still need a source of truth and it needs reliable uptime to be meaningful/reliable - so it's decentralized right up to the point that it's not.

there is nothing this Porsche NFT thing did that a simple name on a list approach would've done much cheaper and with less compute resources.

it is by and far the most expensive way to solve any of the problems it professes to address.

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